Add values of comics based on whether they are signed, or certified, based on average value increases with these factors.
I have both signed, and CGC comics, some are both, and some are certified signed, like a signed Midtown exclusive that would come with their Certificate of Authenticity. Granted some signatures may be worthless, but some significantly increase a comic's value. On average a signature, or a CGC'd comic does increase the value of most all comics on the market. When selecting "signed", or "certified" when adding to your pile, the value of the comic should reflect these additions. I have a comic that in its signed and certified, that's value is made doubled in it's current state, but still only shows as being worth it's unsigned, uncertifed, unslabbed value.
I think a value, based on the average increase of a typical signature (usually $25+), should be applied to your comic's value, pet signature, as well as the average increase for CGC, or other certification, again based on the average increase for such a service having been done.
Granted, it may be difficult to tell the difference from a Stan Lee signature, a Jeff Lemiere signature, and a James Kochalka signature, but even with an average value increase to the comic, reflecting a signature is there, who's greatly help.
Thank you for hearing me out! Please vote!
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Jeff Dumbrique commented
I'm interested to know how this progresses.
The value can possibly be derived by:
> Getting the value of eBay completed sales for Graded and Signed (hard to value the 'raw') books
> Deduct the value of eBay completed sales for non-Graded and non-Signed books
> The difference will represent an average/approximate value for an autograph (Group the values by autograph, e.g. Frank Miller - $200, Stan Lee - $100)That way, we can see a moving (month-by-month) estimated value of a person's autograph on books.
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Joseph Borowy commented
Yeah, but like admin mentioned before, creating a database with the values of each possible signature could be difficult... I still like, and would love to see the idea akin cane up with of being able to add the value in a space along with the options already there to add notes, and to check if signed or certified, would be great. Having this option, which would then add into the total, would be an awesome step in the direction were looking for. Since it's not hard to look up the values ourselves, since most that do signings have their fees listed online, it wouldn't be hard for those interested in buying an issue from someone to see for themselves whether the lister decided to add a bifida price for their own gratification, or off they did so legitimately. If love to be able to add the values of my signed pieces, as I have a few now, which those prices aren't reflected. The bigger bummer is my custom covers... Where those are totally based on amount of work, color, and artist, it would be near impossible to get such a database for that... still, I wish they'd add the signature value space already, as clearly there are those who think this is a great idea.
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Kris commented
personally if you have a autographed list with the value next to each name that is categorized by writer, inker, color ect. than add the price of the comic, that should be the total price
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Joseph Borowy commented
I agree Steven... I don't believe the value of the autograph would change because issue #22 is a whatever issue, and #37 has the first ever appearance of a more major character in comics and the big screen.The comic itself may increase in value to collectors, but I believe a signature's value is the same, whether on an index card, a picture, an action figure, comic book, etc. Although one may be more visually appealing than another, outs not what matters.
I.really liked the idea of being able to add in an amount for signatures when adding to "My Pile"... I can see how a database of names and values associated can be difficult, but the option given sounds great as a start. I get also nobody else offers this, and honestly, I think as great as this site is (my favorite), doing this would set Comic Book Realm far apart from competitive sites! Those who can't add signature values on other sites would flock here, for the ability to do so here. Of course, as Burger King copies McDonald s, and Wendy's week surely copy them, other sites will start adding signature values as well, but we'd already be a step ahead in the game... We need to be McDonald's with this feature! Hahaha!
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steven rex commented
i believe an autograph should be worth the same on any comic no matter the issue. if it was this way there could be an autograph column kinda like wizard magazine did in the 90s. so if i was wanting say stan lees autograph maybee it would be worth 60 dollars as example and add that to issue that is signed the problem with this wich i dont agree with is say i bought a vol2 #1 xmen stan lee auto i might pay 70 dollars for! (example) then i want to buy volume 1 #1 even a 2.0 price on trying to buy this book is not 70 dollars more then usual price but 200 dollars more and i see this happen all the time on ebay this is because a person collecting that wants this auto usually would prefer a key comic with his autograph this is what the market shows at this time.. but it still would be nice to have a column where a person that collects autographs could go and get a base value of what a creator/artist auto is worth this woulkd be hard to do though im afraid
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Joseph Borowy commented
That's a bummer Sean! I just a year and a half ago moved back to Maine from Phoenix, AZ... Would've been nice to meet you and do some work on you, especially if there were military aspects to the tat... I ALWAYS give members of the military free tats that are directly related to their service, so it likely would've cut a lot out of the price of the work done. I come from a military family, as does my wife, but unfortunately choices in our lives deterred or military career wants, and as a result are always looking for ways to show our appreciation and give back to those who serve, or have served. I hope we could keep in touch, and maybe the next time I'm out Californee way, we could work something out?
Btw, please excuse me... My father was recently hospitalized, and I didn't find out the way a first born son should have, along with the stresses of a daughter coming in June, I've been a little on edge, and I see where I may have taken your post as aggressive was rude on my part. I meant no offense to you either.
Feel free to email me sometime, if you'd like. JLBorowy@live.com
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sandstormer commented
Joseph B,
I think you're finding an argumentative/combative tone where none exists. Determining value for anything always involves some guesswork. The best bet is looking at comparable sales. A non-comic example is when you sell your home and hire an appraiser before setting an asking price. The appraiser pulls 3-5 recent home sales in the same area with similar square footage and amenities as "comps" which are used to determine an average price per sq ft. He/she then multiplies that amount by the number of square feet in the home you're selling, and "voila!" you have an appraised value that you can now use to determine an asking price. You can ask for more, the same, or less. There's no guarantee that you will find a buyer at the appraised price since market conditions can change, but it's a fairly good ballpark. That's why I prefer eBay's sold items query over static annual guides like Overstreet when determining value/asking price for comics. I also like CBR because it updates values regularly based largely on recent eBay sales pointed out by users. Based on that, I observe raw, signed comics consistently selling for less than the other examples I listed previously. Since value is defined as, "the monetary worth of something," I don't know of a better way to determine it other than what the market is willing to pay for it. If you agree with that, then slabbed comics hold considerably more value than un-slabbed comics whether signed or not. To get really specific, CGC comics enjoy a 10-20% higher value than CBCS and PGX comics. Why? Because that's what the market determined. That may change and when/if it does, that should be adjusted, but as of the time/date of this comment, slabbed comics are more valuable than un-slabbed comics according to the market. The truism that is expressed on this site often, "A comic is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it," leaves no doubt that they are not equal in value. BTW, I still never said that signatures lower the value of a comic. I said a signed, raw copy's value is lower since there is no third party guarantee it is an authentic signature. Personally, I like the "clean" look and were I buying for my personal collection, would likely not buy a signed copy if the signature detracted from the artwork. Since you're an artist, I'm sure you can appreciate what I'm talking about. One can sign the cover in a way that "goes with the flow" of the art which can look really cool, but one can also scribble their name across the cover in a way that is not aesthetically pleasing too. Unfortunately, I encounter more of the latter than the former (usually from the writer or editor and not the cover artist!).
Have a great day, man.
BTW, I'm a Marine infantryman, so needless to say, I'm tatted up pretty good and def appreciate a good tattoo artist. What area are you in? I'm in NOLA and Los Angeles frequently and want to extend the tattoo on my right arm and make it a full sleeve now that I'm a civilian and no longer have to worry about USMC regs re: tattoos. It covers my shoulder down to about 2" above my elbow presently.
L8,
Sean/Sandstorm Comix
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Joseph Borowy commented
And I wasn't attacking you, or accusing you of anything. I was about mentioning, and if you deal on comics like you say you do, you can agree you see it, people upcharge ridiculously for grading all the time. Like my example before, I have seen a jack-ass get a $2 Grimm Fairy Tales Presents issue graded, then try selling it for $50... That's bunk, and you know it. Those puerile hope to score a buck on someone who doesn't know better, and it happens ALL the time. I buy/sell/trade comics all day long, when I'm not doing my tattoo work, so I know it cost money to get issues verified, certified, graded, whatever, but that is the choice you make, and the buyer makes as well. If a buyer wants to pay for that convenience, so be it; however, it still doesn't increase a comic's value. The issue up for consideration is a comic's value, not convenience charges accrued while purchasing, or selling a comic.
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Joseph Borowy commented
As far as certification of a signature, yeah, CGC helps there, because it verifies the signature authentic; although, a pain comic, no signature, CGC'd dies bit increase it's value, it merely guarantees it's condition as authentic. What I was saying, is exactly what admin said, that that doesn't change it's value, and there are already options to select grade on the site. My whole purpose to this suggestion, is to be able to select that a comic is signed, and add a value to reflect that signature, certified, or not. This option isn't available on comicbookrealm.com, and it would be cool if it were.
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Joseph Borowy commented
No need to get all pissy and talk rude to me bro. Was simply saying what was already said by admin, as well that the deal of signatures on comics opinions go both ways. This is exactly what I was saying. You feel they lower value, while there's a large group like myself who feel otherwise. It's entirely the opinion of the buyer. Nobody said you had to agree, others already do, but that doesn't give you a right to attack me on my suggestion, or comments therein. Please be respectful, or keep your comments to yourself. This is a subject I thought would be a great idea, as well as others, and would like to keep comments respectful, and on subject. If you don't like it, don't vote.
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sandstormer commented
Joseph B.,
Don't get your panties in a bunch. I didn't state my opinion as to whether or not someone's signature increases the value of a comic or not. I stated the fact that many collectors do not find them desirable especially if the signature is on the front cover. Since selling comic books accounts for around ⅓ of my family's household income, I choose to keep my personal opinion on the subject to myself since I am happy to procure a comic for a customer signed or unsigned as they request. One thing that is not subjective about signed comics based on my experience buying and selling them is that a non-certified signature is DEFINITELY worth less than the same comic with no signature on it, one that is slabbed and certified, or one that has an original, legit COA with the comic book inside packaging that remains unopened/seal unbroken. Too many dishonest folks with sharpies who prey on unsuspecting buyers out there. Some forgeries are really well done too, which is why only an eye-witness to the signature (like CGC SS) or an after-the-fact certification issued by a highly credible expert (a service offered by PGX for $15 that I recommend to anyone who ever wants to sell potentially valuable, signed, raw comics). I have NEW 52 Batgirl #0-10 with variants signed by Gail Simone, but they're all raw and convention signed. I'm sending them to PGX next month for that service before I sell them. That cost in addition to the grading fee will run me around $30 give/take in addition to shipping and insurance. When I set a sale price for them, I will incorporate those costs into the price I charge. If I think New 52 Batgirl #1 in 9.8 with Gail Simone's signature isn't worth $55-60, I'm not paying to get the signature certified ($15) and the grading fee ($15) in addition to other costs. That doesn't even address the cash flow problems one encounters when they're out of pocket for a month or two waiting on those comics. Buyers don't deal with any of those headaches, sellers do. That's not for nothing. it's because it's profitable. While you may feel like that is unfair, the market consistently proves otherwise. I also never once suggested adding $50-100 to a comic's value based on whether or not it was slabbed. I offered a suggestion that gives a modest increase in value that is actually less than the costs of grading and likely falls far short of actually reflecting a CGC comic's value in the marketplace. It's definitely not a perfect solution to ½ of the problem you started this thread about, but it does something. I am curious why you're so worked up about CGC comic book pricing by some sellers. Don't buy it and move on. If enough people do the same thing then he/she will likely drop the price until it sells. Pretty simple concept.
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Joseph Borowy commented
And sandstormer, that is really your opinion, like was previously mentioned, some have. A signature, no matter where it is, can hold value, based on who signed it. An artist, creator, writer for a comic, signing there work, how does that ruin it? If that's the case, should Picasso, or Dali, or Warhol never have signed their creations? Just ridiculous in my, and a lot of people's opinions, but there are others like you who would think otherwise, and you're entitled to that. Again, regardless, where a signature is, on a comic, on a piece of paper, or wherever, it still holds some sort of value. For instance, I am having my Princess Leia Action Figure Cover signed by Carrie Fisher next month... The comic may be worth only a few bucks, but her signature costs a minimum of $95 to acquire... Would be nice to be able to add that value to it in my Master Pile.
I definitely agree with Dough Boy on the CGC thing as well; that doesn't increase the value of a comic. If you choose to pay to get your comic graded, that's on you, but don't charge me $50 - $100 for ding it, when I could do it for a fraction, if I so choose to. Sellers on eBay post high premiums for having this done, but they don't often sell. I buy, sell, trade in eBay all the time, and most buyers/sellers will tell you, they either don't want the grading done, or if they can get a good deal on a graded comic (for its actual worth, not the mark up) they will remove the comic from the slab. Yeah, it's great to have the guarantee your comic is in the condition (grade) you're told it is, but like Dough Boy said previously, we already have the option to select the grade of a comic, and it's value is reflected when you select the grade. A $2 comic in 10.0 condition, is still a $2 comic in slabbed 10.0 condition. How does encasing it in a shell increase value?
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Joseph Borowy commented
Thank you Dough Boy. I really appreciate you're looking into this. I get that it would be a LOT of work, to have to create an entire database for values of specific artists, writers, creators, actors, etc.; although, I think you're idea of allowing us to maybe set in our own price upgrade to reflect the values, would likely be the best thing to do. At that point, it puts the research in the comic owners hands, and also won't reflect any kind of liability on your guys for whatever reasons.
I sincerely hope this could be done, and look forward to any updates on this subject. Again, thanks for your time and efforts.
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sandstormer commented
I think adding a flat, $15 value increase across the board for all slabbed comics reflects an increase in value and errs on the side of caution (basically bumps value by the grading fee costs). Maybe add a $10 "bonus" for copper age to present books graded 9.8+, bronze graded 9.4+, and Silver graded 8.0+ would also be appropriate. For keys that is likely too low, but from what I've seen on eBay, I think it accurately reflects the prices for the bulk of slabbed common issues from Silver Age through recent releases. I agree that adding a value based on signatures is too subjective. Signed comics are not desired by many collectors, especially when the signature is on the front cover (messes up the artwork). As doughboy pointed out, who signs it can really matter too. Way too many variables to accomplish this.
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I have given it some thought and there will be no way I can implement the ability to have a different price depending on who signs a comic or whether it is certified.
About the only thing I can try to accomplish is to allow you to set your own value. For instance if CBR says it is a $100 comic but you paid $400 and think it is worth $500 then you could set the value for your book to $500 but for the rest of us it would still be $100.
I will have to do a lot of investigating to see what it will take to make this change. Creating the interface and saving the override won't be too big of a deal. The problem is rewriting EVERY calculation across the site to account for an override.
You should also be aware that I am sure NO online price guide does this. Heck I am pretty sure NO guide does this as we all are guides. I might even need to run this approach by the Mods for their feedback.
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Alex. commented
I NEED THIS, It says i'm loosing money when I know i'm not, by a long shot, I've got literally 12 books that are signed in my collection AND CERTIFIED, most of which are hot books and it says i'm loosing money...
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Joseph Borowy commented
I agree Jason. That's why I suggested having a database of names & a value assigned to their name. When you select signed option when adding to your Master Pile, a text box would then appear, allowing you to enter the signer's name. When a name is entered, the value associated with that name would then be applied to your comic's value. I know a lot of members here on Comic Book Realm would agree this option would be great to have, as a lot of us have signed issues, and no way to apply a value to them, even if for personal gratification.
I think if you look into it, it's not difficult to come up with autograph values, even for non-artists/writers/creators... For example, a Mark Hamill autographed Star Wars #1... Let's say it's condition puts it at $75... Then you select "signed", and type Mark Hamill into the text box... Where Mark Hamill's signature goes for $125 (his asking price at conventions), you would then get a new value on your Star Wars #1 of $200... Now, maybe Forward Chaykin signed it too? So, that would post up about another $20, making it $220... Hell, maybe Tom Palmer slipped his on there too! Now your looking at another $15 for his Hancock... $235... Throw in Stan Lee and you could have a $300 issue, and Lord knows if Lucas strokes his pen across the cover!?
Comics and their prices are fun, and a great hobby, lifestyle, even living for some, and signatures are as well; sometimes for non-collectors of comics, sometimes for both. I just really feel that where signatures are a growing interest, and mission for many collectors, that we should have a representation of their values in our pricing guides.
Why not be the first to offer this option!? I've not seen any other comic book collecting site have this feature. It would definitely set us far above similar sites! -
Jason Klein commented
What if there was a list of artists and a "value to add" whether it be in $. I know that my 9.8 Spawn CGC SS with a McFarlane signature is going to be worth "in theory" more then the copy I got that is not certified. In the case like it was brought up about people just getting anything by Marvel signed by Stan Lee I think the multiplier or added $ value should only apply to anyone listed on the page as a contributor. An ASM #300 signed by McFarlane makes sense but signed by McFarlane and Stan Lee as I have seen or just Lee makes no sense. I never will understand why people do that with him when he has tons of books out there available. It's not like he only wrote the stories on FF #1 and ASM #1 etc. But I have tons of signed books I got all done in person and some certified. Would love to know the value. I'll never part with them so I guess one can argue then why do I care but it's just one of those things I like to know.
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Joseph Borowy commented
Also, again, I understand it is hard to determine who's signature is worth more, or less than who's, which I had mentioned in my suggestion. This is why I think, that if you take the average increase, of signed issues, from a group of sources, and use that as a basis for the increase in value in your pile, when selecting it being signed, or signed & certified, it would help. A person interested in buying the comic could see who had signed it in the notes, therefore allowing them to determine themselves if they would want to but this signed issue, or not. I think if you see, oh gets a certified signed comic, but here's what is said to be worth, but you're asking this, which is more than the comic days it's worth, deters potential buyers, because the value doesn't reflect proper, to a request, or even simply it doesn't make me feel good liking at my own pile saying an issue is worth $100 when it's current selling value is $150. Bad enough there are $0 valued comics worth sometimes hundreds of $ putting my profits based on value and what I paid in the negative, when I in fact profited sometimes 4x what I paid. That's anther issue though, right? Hahaha!
Also, some feel signatures will devalue a comic book, but that's a small circle of purists, like those who won't get tattooed... Yet you'll find even the biggest prudes have a tattoo hidden somewhere on their body, as some of these comic purists would sell their master pile for someone's rarer than rare signed issue of something. Saying we can't set an average value increase because some think it lowers values, you may as well do away with comic values all together, because some say comics are worthless just the same. Just ask the poor guy who's mom three away their boxes of #1 Superman's, and Batman's, when they were away for summer camp as teens. Hahaha! Just having fun, but trying to justify my intent, I guess. Thanks for your time again. -
I understand...it would be a lot easier to account for graded comics then signed comics. As I mentioned what if the editor signs the comic? What if it was the inker, penciler, letterer, etc? I think generally the penciller and writer would tend to fetch more. But what if you get a comic signed by someone completely unrelated to it? There are a lot of people who get comics signed by Stan Lee who has nothing to do with the comic.
About the only way this could even be remotely possible would be if you chose who signed the comic and they just had some sort of multiplier to their name. But this wouldn't really solve the issue as if Stan Lee had say a 100% multiplier and if he signed a $5 comic it might be worth $10, but if he signed a $1,000 comic it might be worth $2,000. As you can see this wouldn't really work as I would imagine on the low end it is still low, and on the high end it is way too high...
It seems like the problem that is trying to be addressed is that the value of a given comic is listed as $x but you paid $y because it is either graded and or signed so you know the value (at least to you) is greater. But now the site shows it as a loss.
Honestly I think the only way to solve this problem would be to allow people to set their own "value" of the comic so when reporting your collection it would show what you think it is worth.